• It times like these

    when I look around and get the itch to charge charge charge… you know, everything in the house looks shabby, you need a vacation cause the weather is so bad, a new wardrobe to perk yourself up… LOL… good thing we don’t have any credit cards!!!! DH was saying that this morning, if it weren’t for the extras we would ahve a bunch of extra money this month LOL
    Thanks for the cheering!

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  • But….you covered the dental

    the new tires and the college expenses all with cash, and, you’ve prepared by having food storage on hand, and, there is still some funds in the EF. It’s not a lot, but you still have funds in you EF. I’d say you’re still doing extremely well, Lea. Cut yourself some slack! You could have said “what the heck” and charged everything, right? I’d say you’re doing all you can, and so far, so good. You just need to get that extra $350. You’ll do it.

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  • This has NOT been our month…

    mouth and added college expense = 1250
    We managed to scrounge and scrimp to make the extra ( did I mention the car needed new tires to pass inspection), and we paid all the bills except the land payment for the extra land ( 325.00)….
    so… we thought, no problem… we can make it up this weekend … uh no… the mall is closed down where our shoppe is because the parking lot is a sheet of ice… sooo…. hopefully we can make up the money tomorrow, tues & wed…. 200.00 left in the EF.. and we can eat off food storage….
    grrr….. not feeling very upbeat at the moment as I sit here looking at the ice… guess I need a couple Pollyanna pills

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  • I so should have taken before pics

    (we never remember to!) but right now we’re moving the playroom stuff to another room and trying to figure out how to make the best use of the space we have.
    We have 3 bigger boys who use to share a room…our middle kiddo has PTSD pretty bad and needs his own space for the safety of the other 2. So we moved our 9 yr old and 6 yr old to the playroom, which was renovated last year into a legal bedroom. So we are moving the playroom stuff into an unused room. My office/sewing stuff is still in the new bedroom and will stay…also, we have a small t.v./game systems/movies in there but its used maybe 2x a year!
    Fitting 7 children and 2 adults into a 4 bedroom house and all our stuff takes creativity! I will work on it this week, take pics of where I am at with it now, the progress and the results. I will be purging and all that fun stuff as I go!
    Pray that my children will willingly thin their herd of toys and that I can get this done quickly! Tomorrow is my China blessings birthday! His party is this weekend and we’re pairing it with our homegrown daughter who is turning 3 next month…

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  • I don’t do mine this way

    but I do tend to “round up” individual categories plus I have a savings account/sinking fund that I use for
    extra expenses. But when I first started doing a budget many years ago, and was making about $500/mo, I used to put an extra $50 line
    item into my budget for “other”. There always was something. New glasses or a vet bill or whatever.

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  • I spent the weekend

    compiling a list of lists and spreadsheets I need to create then working on creating them. This warm weather has brought home sharply that we need to move the geese and ducks out of the garden soon and I need to look seriously at doing the germination testing of the seeds on hand and get my “need to purchase” seeds ordered. This along with repairs needing done, cheap getaways needing planned, business work and planning schedules made me realize I needed to organize my thoughts on paper (computer) and as with everything around here I needed a list.
    Speaking of lists, since my Ipod is a hand-me-down one the battery tends to go dead quickly, so I’ve been using my android phone more and more for my portable electronic source of lists and such. This meant I was not using my ishopare price comparison program on my ipod near as often. It seemed like anytime I wanted to use it the stupid thing was dead. I mentioned this to dh and that I would really like an ap that is all inclusive for comparing costs, grocery lists, menu planning etc. for my phone since it is always with me and charged. Sunday he showed me two different aps he had narrowed my request down to: Out of Milk and Grocery Tracker. Of the two I chose Grocery Tracker. It looks like it is going to be my best option for tracking prices and such.
    I’ll be writing a blog post soon about the ins and outs of the ap as I set it up for our personal use. I particularly like the fact it has a pantry inventory on it and you can actually scan the barcodes as you are doing the inventory and it will do all the entry for you.
    Dh says he does feel like he got suckered a little bit on finding this free ap for me though. You see I’ve been wanting pantry shelf organizers for a long time. The style I particularly like (at this time can be seen at: http://www.canracks.com/ dh says they’d be easy to build if he could get to his table saw—don’t get me started on the condition of the garage right now. So when he came up with the ap I said “well it looks like it does everything I need except build my can racks.” The look I got…LOL!I pointed out to him that the pantry is currently hazardous to my health and well being (I have bruises on my feet right now from where several cans fell out of the pantry on my feet one day this last week) and that since I would be wanting to inventory to use this Ap (remember he is an electronics/program/aps nerd/junkie that wants everything used to the max) it would be the PERFECT time to set up such organizers and we did after all have that $60 Lowes gift card from the payout on the non-seedless/seedless grape problem… He nodded I was right so now will he build them? He did tell me to decide how many of what sizes I needed. Our 40th wedding anniversary is coming up before long and it would be a great gift for me. LOL! We’ll see.
    He and ds are both really getting into this culling out and organizing thing, so I just might get them this go around. He also announced this weekend that we needed a “better way” of dealing with the tools because they spent a long time looking for a misplaced set of drill bits—still haven’t found them, because they don’t have a designated set in stone storage area. I’ll look for them later today once I get back from town.

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  • I accepted one merchandising job last week to do today

    It’s only 3 miles from my home and I need to go to that little town anyway to mail some packages, so basically I’ll have almost no gas involved and it will be enough to cover the postage. It is also close enough I will not be tempted to grab a bite to eat, which has been my downfall of late on doing mystery shopping and merchandising.
    I spent part of this last week getting geared up for our annual tax hassle. One of the things dh and I discussed is the fact that my “job” is considered self-employment. With OK charging a self-employment surcharge each year and the return of the higher social security tax rate, meaning I’d be required to pay double as self employed, we decided that our decision to cut back or eliminate mystery shopping entirely is a wise one. While I might not be a multi-millionaire that is bailing out of a state or country because of taxes the hikes have definitely made us rethink a lot of what we are doing or plan to do.At this point we are still going to go heavily forward on Webfoot Tub Designs, but if we find that it is not cost effective to do so in the future it too will fall to the wayside. At this point we are going to give it a few years to turn a profit, but if taxes and such keep on that time frame might get cut way down.

    We made little progress on the office this weekend because the guys both worked most of the weekend and what time they were home was spent working on an easel to support ds’ drafting/art board and updating programs on the various computers.

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  • While much of the nation is cloaked in a sheet of ice

    here in OK we are having record high temperatures this week. It is currently 8:20 am and 65 degrees, the expected high is to be in the 70-80 degree range today. This makes me very NERVOUS about the possibility of tornadoes.
    Last week saw me being “real friendly” with the budget AGAIN, still tweaking the budget flip flop and trying to streamline it a bit. One of the things I’ve done is instead of trying to have a set sinking fund for every single little thing I calculated how much could be comfortably put back into a general sinking fund account. It’s basically the same amount going in each month as when we kept them separate, but instead of spending a lot of bookkeeping time designating that it is for this sinking fund or that it is now just a general fund that I will put a cap on for total to be in there. I’m still working on deciding how high that cap should be because as we all know more than one sinking fund might need to be tapped in a single month. Once that cap is reached I plan on replenishing that fund with any monies that are available asap when some of the money is used just like I do the emergency fund. I may change my mind about doing it this way in the future, but for right now it’s a way to streamline the bookkeeping system and make it easier for dh and ds to handle should I be unavailable.On the subject of replenishing the bef, we should be able to do that part of the “pay back” this next pay day because dh worked 17.5 overtime hours over the weekend and may be working more this week. How they will handle this and which check it will be on for certain is still up in the air. If it’s like other employers have been it should all work out just fine. Because the number of hours on each paycheck can fluctuate wildly I have started a spreadsheet to keep track of what paychecks of various hours are to help me budget more efficiently in the future.

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  • Well I’ll ask a tough question

    or two just trying to get greater understanding. First, I’m going to assume that you don’t live in a community property state. Otherwise it really doesn’t matter whose name is on what.The next question is does he do legal gambling (Professional) or is this more of the seedy side where I can imagine he has debts.Legal gambling, those losses are covered immediately and winnings are paid just as quickly.I ask all of that to say that you might have to put his gambling debts in the budget to provide peace of mind going forward.

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  • I want to thank everyone for the words of advice so far

    It will take me a minute to get all my debts together but I will post those as soon as I can. I do want to answer Jan’s question in regards to DH.My dh is a lifelong gambler. He started at 18 and never stopped. I didn’t realize just how bad it was until after we were married. It has taken several years and lots of heartache. We have finally found a system that works for us. Nothing is in my husband’s name and we share no accounts. When he works which is rare, we do direct deposit directly into to my account. I don’t carry cash and I don’t give him access to my debit cards. We stopped using credit along time ago. The one vehicle we have is only in my name. DH realizes that cash in hand is a major issue but I can not get him to go to outside professional help. Currently he is serving the role as stay at home Dad. I am still conflicted about what decision I will ultimately make but right now I need to get things straight financially so I can make some clear headed decisions. When I say he doesn’t seem to be on board, I don’t mean he is spending cash per se.. for instance I shop with a very tight food budget and shop for specific meals. I know it sounds crazy but I will plan out meals for two weeks etc. Hubby seems to disregard this and will jus make some hamburgers for his friends one day and that can throw us off track. Sometimes I feel like the worst person by locking down the food, and gas supply. Dh doesn’t get that 5 dollars here or there adds up. I know this part of the issue and me not saying no in the past that I am thinking of including a line item in our budget that accounts for his costs per month. I read TMMO and know that both spouses need to be on the plan for this to work . I am at least trying to get in a position to move on if that’s what I chose.

    Long winded I know but I hope that explains some things.

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  • When you are listing things for either figuring your budget

    When you are listing things for either figuring your budget on your own or with our help you need to include EVERYTHING, haircuts, gym shoes, scout fees, and blow money—yes blow money. Everyone gets some. The Total Money Maker Over is the best place to start if you are not in Financial Peace University (FPU) You can get it for free from your local library. Read it make notes, copy the forms in the back of the book and ask questions here. There is no such thing as a bad or stupid question, except the one you don’t ask. So ask away.You will notice the mention of homework here. It is a voluntary thing we do every Monday. We report to each other the advances and back steps we each take. It helps us see where we’ve made mistakes or had great success and the group will encourage you along the way. Also once a month there is a voluntary reporting to Sharon (if she is still up for doing it for 2013) our individual monthly debt payoff. Then at the end of the year Sharon tells us how the group did as a whole. It’s a pretty impressive amount!Oh, another thing you will see mention of is Pollyanna Pills. It’s an inside joke here. I got the reputation of being a Pollyanna (as in the Disney film with Pollyanna who always found the bright side in everything) when I announced the day that my guys lost their jobs that it was the best thing that ever happened to us. You know what I was right. Anyway, if someone is having a down day/week/month we issue an rx for Pollyanna pills.We are like a big old family, and just like a big old family we will ask you the tough questions. I’ll ask the first ones, because I foresee a possible stumbling block in your path to financial freedom. Is your husband getting help with his gambling problem? How are you dealing with it? Are you enabling him? Please don’t feel upset that I/we ask such questions. We all have some problem that we must deal with. It might not be gambling, it might be being able to say no to a family member/friend over and over again(our biggest problem in this household—it took us a long time to grow a backbone and learn to say no with conviction and stick to it), a collection habit, a hobby habit, a shoe habit, or the general “I WANT IT NOW” (envision Violet in Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory-oompah, oompah –sorry seeing little orange men). we have all had a stumbling block. We’ve all had to deal with it in some way or another. It’s what you do to deal with it that can make all the difference in your gazelle speed on getting debt free. Everyone here is good at offering suggestions. If our suggestions don’t work for you then that is fine. No too families are identical.

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  • As many already on the list know the first thing

    I generally say is “Breathe”. And that is what you need to do, slow down take a deep breath and know that no matter how bad it seems things will improve. You have taken the first major step. You acknowledged the fact that financially your life is out of control. Now you can fix it. No one here will promise you it will be easy, nor will we tell you that there won’t be set backs (aka: Murphy Moments), but we will tell you that there will be wonderful Millie Moments when you least expect it. A Millie Moment is a sudden good fortune, even if it’s only finding a really large coupon for something you truly need and are flat broke, or huge Millie Moments like a big bonus, pay raise or other windfall. When these Millie Moments hit you will be surprised to find how much differently you will look at that money in the future than how you did in the past.
    You’ve already received some wonderful advise from some folks. I’ll second all that has been said, but being the chatterbox I am I’ll explain them a bit more.
    Sharon mentioned weaning things out of your life. We each have “extras” in our budget that could truthfully go. I know when I first join the list nearly four years ago I was certain I could not cut anything out. The next month my dh and ds both lost their jobs on the same day and were unemployed for 18 months and I found we could REALLY cut the budget. Not only did we cut, but we even paid off some tiny bills while unemployed. Thankfully both men eventually got jobs again, at 25% less than they had previously been making, but they now work together again at a great company.Sara pointed out things like cutting your cable/satellite package, your cell phone plan, ending landlines etc. The best way we could all help both newbies in getting your personal finances under control is for you to list your complete income and outgo on here for us to help you look for places you could cut and soon be debt free. We don’t need exact company names or anything like that if you don’t want to do that, it’s understandable, discussing finances is rough for some people. Me I’m pretty blunt about it all, but then that’s me. List minimum monthly due, balance and if you are in arrears—don’t bother with interest rates because we do not look at those here at all.—except to try and help you get them lowered.If you don’t want to list the names of your bills then put cc (credit card) #1, #2 etc, if it’s in collections then mark that it is — By the way, many of us have seen the ugliest side of collections so you will be in good company. We can help you handle those bottom feeders and give the power back to you. Not them—they have NO POWER, do not let them bluff you. If they call and get nasty, hang up on them, you do not have to take it.

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  • Glad to have you here

    The first thing you need to do is catch up on all of your other household bills, like electricity, gas, water, – utilities. Once you get those bills current then you can begin to work in earnest on the Dave Ramsey Plan.To get caught up with the bills, sell those items which you no longer need or can afford such as cable/satellite TV, extra cell phones, a land line if everyone is dependent upon cell phones etc. Look seriously at the grocery budget, and what you’re buying in the grocery store. Start cooking more from scratch than the more expensive pre-fabricated mixes/kits etc. Learn to shop on the perimeter of the grocery store (fresh items, produce, meat, dairy) fresh frozen etc.We’ll ask you about specific budget items later, your first priority now that you’ve caught up your rent, is to get your household bills current.

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  • What you need to do

    What you need to do is figure out what you make and your monthly expenses. Once you have it WRITTEN down, you can act on it. Make sure your ‘4 walls’ are taken care of – housing, food, utilities, transportation. Those are things that MUST be paid. Everything else
    after that is negotiable. Do you have enough money to pay your current bills? If so, anything left over goes towards debt. List
    your debts lowest to highest. Make the minimum payments on all the debts except the smallest. Throw everything you can at that one.
    When that one is paid, take what you were paying them, and any other money you can squeeze out of your budget and pay on the next one.

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  • I want to introduce myself

    and ask for some assistance in where to get started. My friends call me Kat.. I am a Mom of 6 and work full time. My husband is currently not employed and has some gambling issues. All of our children live with us and one daughter is now expecting. 2 of the kids do contribute to the household. Our finances are a mess, some weeks we don’t have enough for food. Every single bill is behind. So far I have been robbing Peter to pay Paul. What I am most confused about is that I make a decent salary and bad choices I guess. Currently we are paying 2400 in rent monthly (current and past) because we were 5 months behind and I had to make an arrangement for us to stay in the house. Essentially we are living on 1400 a month. Our payment plan is done now and we will only have to pay the current. Because that 800 a month will be now available, I want to make sure I am making the right decisions. My fear is the other bills have suffered because we were focused on the rent. Any suggestions? I was not sure what other information to put out there.

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  • Just in case there is any doubt, check this page:

    There is nothing to indicate he’s teaching any course in network marketing, at least this term or for any current class listing, but it does say that it’s one of his research interests. And Paine is right about the institution.

    I know you don’t want to hear this, Ronald, but I’ve seen times where someone in an MLM will say something like, “Even this management textbook discusses MLMs, on pages 39 and 412.” What they don’t say is that the text book could well be saying how bad they are. In other words, the citation is mentioned, but the context of the citation is left out.

    Unless you can prove otherwise, I would find it more likely that Professor King teaches courses in MLMs to teach students about their problems than their benefits.

    In other words, if he does teach a course in it, that does not mean he is saying anything positive about it. If he researches it, it may be to investigate the many problems this business model creates.

    It’s the attempt at credibility that basically shows how uncredible the structure and model is.

    I back that up. Just because your upslime tells you that doesn’t mean it’s true. This is a good example. It’s the wrong university and the right university has little to validate what you say. Heck, they can’t even do a decent web page. I really wonder just what kind of facilities and backing they have.

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  • Ha-ha-ha!

    Is that the best you can do for credibility??

    Professor King teaches at a school that was FOUNDED in 1999. It has no track record of success. 90% of all its students live within 45 miles of Chicago. Oh, and it’s not the University of Chicago. It’s the University of Illinois at Chicago – a considerably different entity. You really need to get your facts in order.

    It is the only school anywhere in the U.S. to even offer MLM/Network Marketing as a course. And somehow, that’s supposed to impress us???


    You would think that any college professor worth his salt could convince at least one other professor at one other school of the validity of his pro-MLM perspective. Apparently, Mr. King cannot.

    Oh, and BTW, I edited out your MLM link. They are not permitted here unless someone requests them. I allowed your message to be posted so that others might see what MLMers pass off as evidence of credibility.

    I don’t know where you’re getting your information (well, I do, really), but you need to be a little more diligent about what you’re being told, especially if you’re thinking of passing it along to others.

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  • Ok. Since you asked – here goes..

    1. MLM is fatally flawed as a business model for distributors – It is DEGIGNED to make 99% distributors fail – why ? because of pt #1 in your post – about products being good for “own use”. Since you are a management student, I am sure you can figure that one out.

    2. Your assertion that people who eat at restaurants are somehow “losers” is very MLM conditioned – I have heard similar things from other bots – why watch TV when you can recruit, or even play golf when you can recruit ? I suppose winners only eat at restaurants when they can recruit everybody at the restaurant. So I would suggest that you drop this nonsensical crap – because lots of people eat at restaurants because they LIKE to….

    3. Your assertions about MLMs reducing distribution costs are patently false – if you compare prices of comparable products of any MLM to prices at Walmart or online retailers like amazon.com – you will see MLM products are outrageously overpriced – The only way you can sell at those prices is to a captive market – that is – to distributors – even that by hyping MLM products by making mostly baseless claims about their superiority.

    4. The BIGGEST LIE in MLM is actually that you are guaranteed to succeed if you work hard.

    5. MLM is not like any other business – so stop making that absurd comparision – and buying products for personal use does not constitute an “investment”.

    And finally, here’s something for you to ponder. ABSOLUTELY nothing you have said here is new. There are no revelations here – ask yourself how many 1000s of people -on this forum or elsewhere have made the same analysis as you and failed – and ask yourself why that may be ? Maybe you will learn something.

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  • I didn’t expect you to

    I make it a point to speak the truth and I’ve found people in MLMs don’t want to hear the truth. They believe what they want to hear and nothing else, no matter whether it is provable fact or not.

    That is one major part where you are showing that you just don’t have the experience or background to know what you’re talking about. If you want to understand, then do more research. Read the stores at the sites that are not pro-mlm. If you were really interested in dialog and learning, then you would have looked at BOTH sides of the issue, not just the people that say it’s good. How can you know that anything you think is true is true unless you’ve examined BOTH sides of the issue well THEN, and ONLY THEN, made up your mind?

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  • I have good friends in colleges and universities that have PhDs

    I know people running businesses and I keep up with other business owners so we can share experience. What I’ve seen is that a PhD in business or even, in many cases, an MBA, can mean nothing without experience. Knowing PhDs doesn’t mean you know what’s going on in the real world.

    The same applies for knowing people who run their own companies. I hang out with a number of musician friends. I still can’t play that sax I have sitting in my living room.

    I didn’t want to play this card, but you are quite young and many of your statements show you are willing to believe whatever your MLM people are telling you (you also don’t specify if your friends with businesses are running MLMs or legitimate businesses). When I was 25, I could have made many of the same statements, but 20 years later I realize that when I was just out of college a few years and 25, I didn’t know 1/4 of what I thought I did.

    I’m bringing this up because the point is, as a student, you’ve got limited experience. You say you have run a few businesses. Where they registered as actual corporations? Did you have to deal with actual taxes and accounting? Did you make enough to make a living on them?

    I’m basically short circuiting part of this to say that your statements do show less experience and knowledge than your manner shows you think you have.

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  • You used the term lose to apply to certain people

    In this case you said, “we can either eat and spend the money with it and be “losers” or we can not go there and eat at home”. You made specific references.
    It may be there is a language issue here, but you are definitely referring to people as losers.

    If you don’t want to call anyone a loser, don’t make such references.

    They are not all the same, but the structure encourages fraud and abuse of the lower levels. Aggressive people will rise to the top of such an organization and that type of person will take advantage of whatever situations available to increase their cash flow. The MLM structure makes it easy for them to encourage their downline to spend money on anything that can be profitable. It encourages abuse.

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  • I won’t for sure call anyone a loser

    and i think that you misunderstood what i was trying to say. I am trying to share some knowledge about this issue and gather some opinions on MLM, and maybe you are right when you say this may not be the correct group for doing so.

    I also believe that MLM companies are not all the same and to distinguish between them you need to research about those.

    About my lack of expertise, i can be a student of management, but i’m really well connected too Phds, people that own their own companies and directors of multinational companies. I also run in the past a few businesses of my own due to fast approval cash loans online, and have a good inside perspective of the market in general.

    I don’t quite agree with all the things you said but you raised some very valid questions for me and for the people reading this.

    I do understand the ressentment of a lot of people against MLM and the need to create such a blog, but i sincerely hope that all of you can move on with your lifes and achieve great success with the relationships you value in your life.

    Thanks again for the time you spend make your point of view clear.

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  • You’ve gotten mine

    But since I disagree and have experience to support what I say, I will not be surprised if you call me a loser so you can have an excuse for not listening to someone who speaks up and says, “You’re wrong.”

    Honestly, I do think you’re naive in this field. MLMs look good. Heck, they look VERY good, but they are a structure which lends itself to quick and severe corruption. It’s like communism. It sounds good in theory, but it doesn’t work.

    Now a question for you: Why are you posting these in this group? Do you understand the purpose of this group and realize that we are here because we’ve been hurt by MLMs? I lost a girlfriend I was quite interested in. Some people here have lost their families due to MLM problems. Why would you come into a group like that and try to say MLMs can be good?

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  • No, it’s not the same risk

    I created my own business. It’s a limited corporation in that if something goes wrong, it’s the business, not me, that’s responsible. My assets are not at risk, but in most MLMs, they insist on members spending more and more money on training and on products. That means the members keep spending more and more money.
    While it’s possible to say that’s not required, the truth is that it is what happens in over 90% of the cases.

    You are right, though, that you have to establish boundaries and set timings so you can see if you should continue or not.

    As for resting, there has never been proof that you can rest and we have one member that managed an MLM business and was doing quite well and she’ll be glad to tell you that once it’s built, you can’t rest. You have to help others recruit and build the business. I’m sure you don’t want to believe me and would rather just call me a loser so you can ignore me, so I’ll just say I’m sorry you believe this and if you had an advanced degree and 10 years of management experience instead of being inexperienced and a student without a real world background, you’d see just how unrealistic this is.

    Most MLMs will not allow you to advertise your product at all.

    As for saying you’re the best, that’s not always the case. I have a portable DVD player sitting 1 foot from my arm as I type this. I didn’t buy it because it’s the best. I bought it because it was the one that most suited my needs. You’ve completely overlooked niche marketing.

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  • It can also be extremely harmful to anyone that expects to work hard

    I’ve seen people in MLMs that think all it takes is hard work, so they put in years of hard work and spent tens of thousands of dollars and lost quite a bit because the structure was geared to funnel their money upwards, not to help them succeed.

    As for the “losers” comment, that is way off base and, to be frank, totally out of line. That you are using such a term shows me that you have already had a good does of the Kool Aid. In other words, you’re already starting to believe everything your MLM people are telling you.

    I eat at restaurants. I enjoy meeting a friend and having something like the Pollo Al Chipotle at the place at the end of the street and being able to sit and chat and not have to worry about who cooks or does the dishes.

    Does that make me a loser? I have my own business. I pay my own bills and then some. I drive the exact car I deeply wanted to own and today I just saw my accountant and there’s a good chance that this year I’ll be paying more in taxes than I made in one year as a teacher. I could be paying 2-3 times what my ex girlfriend made in one year when we were dating and she was in an MLM.

    I’m sorry, but on that point you are wrong. Totally wrong.

    Now on to another point you make in that paragraph: If it’s an innovative product, it’s a good means of distribution. Oh, that and reduced cost. Both are wrong. Are you strong enough to learn why or if I dare to tell you, will you just call me a loser so you don’t have to listen to me telling you something?

    First, many people mistrust MLMs and won’t buy from them. That’s my experience in talking with people and it’s what I saw when my ex-girlfriend tried to recruit people. Second, if it’s innovative, there are many ways to bring it to market. Personally, if I came up with something like that, I’d patent it and basically sell rights so I’d make money without having to run a factory.

    If a product is innovative, there’s a good chance there’s a lack of trust in it until it’s proven. In America we have infomercials. These are shows that usually are on TV late at night and can run half an hour or longer. They’re nothing but long ads for products. Many people avoid what these infomercials sell because they don’t trust the product to do what the advertisers claim.

    I work in computers. I’ve seen innovated products and dumb products. I have never seen, in computers or any other field, a single innovative product that was marketed through an MLM that became well known or a household name.

    Now let’s look at the cost factor. You should know some of this already. Let’s look at a product I might buy at the supermarket. For convenience we’ll take something easy: An ear of corn. I just love corn on the cob! The farmer grows it and gets paid for it. Then a transport company carries it to a warehouse and gets paid for moving it and storing it. Then it’s brought to the distribution center in my city. Again, someone gets paid. Then it’s taken to my local grocer where I buy it and the grocer gets paid. If you count, that’s the farmer, two transport or warehouse companies, and the store that are probably getting paid.

    You will say MLMs eliminate the middle man, but let’s look closer. The farmer creates the product and gets paid for it. The trucker adds value by bringing it closer to me. The warehouse people add a value by storing it until it can be taken to the local grocer. He ads even more value to it by putting it in some place I can get to in a 5 minute drive and I can inspect the corn and take it home easily. Each of these people ads some kind of value to the product. They are paid for their work or contribution and each one is an important link in the chain.

    Now let’s look at a product made and sold through an MLM. Someone makes it, then it’s stored. I buy it, so it’s shipped to me. Sounds good so far, but let me take one example: My ex-girlfriend. If she sold me a product, she got a commission. Her friend’s sister, who was her upline, got a commission. Her friend’s sister’s Father-in-Law gets a commission because he’s upline and so does his mentor, and so do at least 2 other people I know between them and the top. That’s 6 people that get paid a commission on that product. Not one of them has done a single thing to ad value to what I just bought, but they make money on it.

    That’s good for them, but bad for me. Why am I paying for them to make money when they haven’t done a thing to make the product more valuable to me?

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  • Greetings to all!!

    I’m a portuguese management student of 25 years old that just got involved with agel a few months ago, altough i have recruited some people and i’m happy with the products, i’ve been conducting deep ivestigation about Loan and how it works.

    The main conclusions i’ve been driven to are:
    1 – In this kind of business the products must be usefull to your own usage, and not heavily overpriced.

    2 – Debt is a way of distributing goods which works on different premisses unlike Microsoft or other business giant, and that can be extremelly harmful for anyone if we think we are going to earn money without working,it’s like going to the restaurant to eat, we can either eat and spend the money with it and be “losers” or we can not go there and eat at home. The products are the basis of the business, and if it is an innovative product then Loan can be a good way of putting it into the market. They reduce costs of distribuition by implementing a referal system where you will only have sucess if you can find people that need the products.

    3 – The biggest “lie” i’ve found in Loan is that you cannot actually perform AT ALL if you want to get money without spending a long time having training, if the company provides it to you, you can actually save a lot of time and achieve relative success.

    4 – It is as any other business in terms of risk, you actually make an investment in something and you must establish the boundaries for yourself, if you are a costumer you are a costumer, if you want a small part time biz you will spend a lot of time in building that business and them you can rest, and if you want to earn big money you have to advertise your product and business model as if it would be the best, like the guy in the coffee shop next door, i bet he is the best 🙂

    5 – Loan is not for everyone, and you should not try to fool people so they just enroll in your organization and became a “sucker”, if you are honest to the people around you, you will for sure not generate ressentment.

    6 – I’ve met a lot of “bad” people doing Loan, that are looking for a “sucker” to join their organization and have no morale at all.

    Thank you for reading all this. I would appreciate very much your comments and opinions on my perspective.

    After reading a lot about Loan i think i still can be a little naive so please explain your viewpoints so i can understand.

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  • I would agree with that

    I did a search and found the web page for whatever Simon Stepsys is. It’s a crappy web page that starts talking to you without a way to shut off the sound and it wouldn’t let me close the window asking for my email address. It says “I’m a high pressure used car salesman,” from the start.

    Although I do wonder if you’re thinking of joining it or are in it and seeing if you can get some of us to go in with you. You’re not already in this organization, are you?

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  • Who know him?

    You’ve found negative information about him and stuff that does not speak well of what he’s doing and the program he’s trying to sell you.
    He’s also a salesman and someone who doesn’t seem too picky about those with whom he associates.

    How do you think he’d react?

    He’ll twist it and blame others, say it was misinterpreted or say that it’s just stuff put out by dreamstealers who want to make him look bad and ask “Who are you going to listen to? People that want to take your dream and are bitter or someone who wants to make you a millionaire?”

    He’ll use whatever double talk it takes to convince you he’s great and those that dare to bring up the truth are “negative” and should be ignored.

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